If Only we started sooner: Frank Justus, Bayer

For transcripts or to learn about how you can make your building more accessible, visit mobilitymojo.com/podcasts.

 

This is Mobility Mojo Does Disability:IN. I'm your host, Bobbie Hickey, on today's episode.

 

Happy Tuesday.

 

My name is Frank Justus.

 

I'm the global accessibility lead and co-lead for our business resource group Enable at Bayer.

 

Welcome to Mobility Mojo Does Disability:In. Today, I am joined by Frank Justus from Bayer.

 

Frank, thank you so much for joining me today.

 

It's my pleasure to be here.

 

Thanks for having me, Bobbie, and happy Tuesday.

 

Happy Tuesday to you as well and to all of our listeners.

 

So, Frank, you are the global co-lead for the employee resource group Enable within Bayer, and you also lead all of the accessibility initiatives within Bayer.

 

Can you tell us a little bit about those roles?

 

Oh, I'm very happy to.

 

So I'll start with the business resource group Enable role.

 

In fact, this business resource group is employee-led.

 

Everyone does that voluntarily, and it started with just five countries, Bobbie, and it expanded in just a handful of years to now covering over 70 markets, which led to the need to also have a little bit of a global frame.

 

And I'm blessed that I have this honor since a handful of years together with our co-lead in Canada, and so therefore really, really thrilled.

 

And that led actually to bring accessibility also more and more into the forefront.

 

And in fact, it's a new role that we're having at our company, Bayer, as global accessibility lead and equally honored and blessed that I'm actually the very first person having this role in our company.

 

So it's all still continuously being a bit new, but exciting.

 

Very exciting.

 

And so you're clearly very passionate about accessibility.

 

And I know then as a default, Bayer is as well, did you have a personal connection to accessibility before you started in Bayer or what is your drive behind it all?

 

That's a powerful question, and it immediately triggers not one, but actually three responses.

 

So I'll try to give you glimpses and bring them together.

 

First, it's my personal journey in regards of approaching inclusion and accessibility.

 

I'm a father of four, and actually two of my children identify of having a disability.

 

My only daughter having an apparent disability sitting in a wheelchair, and one of my sons identifying as having a disability and being identified as a person on the neurodivergent spectrum.

 

So therefore we have every breakfast and dinner table, we have the topic as a family accessibility around us.

 

The professional one is I have a finance background, Bobbie, and hence I'm tremendously curious to understand the levers of processes and projects and approaches.

 

In fact, I was thrilled when these two merged to drive accessibility and inclusion also with a lens of metrics and really understanding where the tangible benefits and impacts are and can be.

 

And lastly, Bayer as an innovation company has this wonderful mission, health for all, hunger for none.

 

If we mean all, we mean all, and if we mean none, we mean none.

 

So therefore, obviously it's just embedded also in our mission.

 

So it feels like my dream job coming true, I must admit.

 

That's amazing.

 

And I know from personal experience, I have a disability as well.

 

I'm completely blind.

 

And similar to your daughter, it was always quite apparent that I was blind.

 

I never really got a choice for disclosure.

 

And I think my family and I would also say that when you grow up with disability in the home as a topic of conversation, it's not taboo.

 

It's just brought into everyday life.

 

And then when you grow up and you start entering the workplace and the workforce, you then by default start to assess everything you're doing with a different lens.

 

And you bring it into everything you do and start thinking, how can I make this even better?

 

What we're doing is great, but is it great for everyone?

 

And how can I reshape it so that no one is left out and everyone gets to achieve their full potential?

 

Totally agree.

 

And it's actually what we also refer to our win-win-win metric, right?

 

We want to make sure that the elements we address are a win for the individual, for the person for which this is essential.

 

But it is a win for everybody.

 

So in other words, it helps the societal responsibilities that we also as a company have.

 

And at the end, it must be also a win for the company.

 

And if we have that sweet spot of triple win, that's actually where we had the most impactful.

 

And yeah, I can say biggest wins so far.

 

And I know Bayer has achieved so much in the accessibility space.

 

Not least, you have been recognized since 2019 as being best place to work for persons with disabilities.

 

And you've achieved 100% success rate in that index, in the disability equality index since 2021.

 

That is a massive achievement.

 

I'm curious though, is there anything that you have achieved, that you look back on with great satisfaction since you've started your accessibility journey?

 

You know, those rewards and achievements, they're great and they're meaningful.

 

But for us, they are just encouragement to continue because you never are at 100%, right?

 

There's always the next thing that you can address.

 

That's actually the beauty and the curse at the same time that you never are at a finish line, but I love this, right?

 

There's always something new.

 

Still, it's important to recognize where we have accomplishments and to then answer your question.

 

I'm tremendously happy and satisfied about the journey that we had all around the world.

 

As I said earlier, to be then present in over 70 markets with this business resource group is something that I know I speak for the whole BRG enable.

 

It takes a village to drive this.

 

We're tremendously satisfied with.

 

To be connected with so many business functions to drive these topics forward, it never is just one function.

 

It's that holistic approach when we drive things forward.

 

So to have this as a holistic framework set in our organization and to collaborate with so many departments and functions, I think is something that is giving a lot of joy and satisfaction.

 

But at the same time, it shows also there's still so much more that we can and want to do.

 

So again, those awards are really nice and we appreciate them very much.

 

But for us, the most important part out of this is just the power to continue the tracks we're on.

 

I'll be the exact same in everything I do.

 

It's like, okay, this is great.

 

Really happy we've achieved this, but now no pressure going forward.

 

I know, yes.

 

Yeah, so as you look back on your journey, is there anything that surprised you since you began your accessibility journey?

 

And I suppose maybe your accessibility journey began when you started parenthood, or maybe it's in your professional career.

 

But what surprises you the most?

 

Yeah, so I don't want to take a lot of time of our listeners, but the one thing I would maybe highlight first is this.

 

It's a continuous source of innovation, of thinking further in the process, and really, really considering aspects holistically.

 

Some users may know it as the curb cut effect.

 

We refer to it as, as I indicated earlier, essential for some, helpful to everybody.

 

So we start aspects with maybe a certain expectation and a certain population in mind.

 

But while we know it, it continuously surprises us and me myself also is like, how beneficial this is to literally everybody around us.

 

Any stakeholder, so therefore that was, is, and probably will be the surprise factor that stays with me and the whole team.

 

So true, because I do think there is such an air of othering when it comes to accessibility.

 

Oh, they need that.

 

The people with the disabilities need that.

 

But people sometimes fail to realize how relevant and helpful it is for the majority.

 

And is that something you've noticed over the course of your career?

 

Have you noticed a shift in accessibility being recognized as an option?

 

Is it more now, is it now more of a non-negotiable for businesses, do you think?

 

Or do you think we have still a ways to go in that area?

 

I think we, we overall still have a way to go, no matter if we, if we talk about a company specific like, like mine, like Bayer or, or the overall environment.

 

Because there is always that next level to approach.

 

I give you a concrete example.

 

We just had a town hall and introduced live translation during the meeting, right?

 

And this, this again was such a powerful impact to everybody.

 

We had an audience all around the world and everybody could listen in one language, do they want the speaker to hear, right?

 

So, so yes, it still has a three second lag, but, but it's so much better than, than a month ago.

 

And I can't even imagine where it's going to be two weeks or four weeks from now.

 

It's such a rapid innovation.

 

This, so, so, so there's still so much for us all to, to, to, to invent, to approach, to drive accessibility.

 

Again, to me, that is a massive, massive pool of excitement because it really leaves, leaves a lot to, to, to just do it, imagine it and go for it.

 

And I love those environments.

 

As do we, and we really recognize and operate in the ethos that when you embrace accessibility, you open the door for creativity and innovation.

 

And you not only allow all of your staff and all of the people around you to fully express themselves and really achieve what they desire to achieve, but also you, you open the door to your business to really never stop.

 

And you never reach the ceiling of what you can create because when you start to really harness accessibility, who's to say what you can and can't do.

 

Yeah.

 

And, and, and you know, Bobbie, I, I know you're with Mobility Mojo.

 

So, so allow me maybe to give you one example in the, in the collaboration we're having with, with your company, right?

 

So we, we assessed quite a few buildings together.

 

And, and it was actually a moment of absolute pride when we, when we remediated one of the findings in a building that we had.

 

And we were actually inspecting that with, with the building owner, with the site owner at that point in time, and, and two random employees walked by, right?

 

And seeing the, the, the change that we've made, and as if it was ordered and it wasn't, one saying to the other, oh, I wish we would have changed that already weeks ago or months ago.

 

Something like that was the saying, right?

 

And it could have not been better to again, display, it's essential for some helpful to, to everybody.

 

Yeah.

 

It sounds like you paid them to be there at the right time.

 

It does, right?

 

But I guarantee you, we, we didn't, it was, it was a total coincidence.

 

And in fact, the, the, the site owner asked us that, did you, did you stage that?

 

We don't know those people, right?

 

So hilarious.

 

Proving my point perfectly, Frank.

 

Thank you.

 

I suppose then on that same note, when you look back on your journey then, is there anything that you would have changed in your journey thus far with accessibility?

 

Yeah.

 

I think I wish I would have started earlier with this is maybe the immediate thought, but maybe, maybe a little bit more, more tangible to, to, to the, to the audience.

 

I wish we would have started from the get-go by identifying this framework that we're operating under first before jumping to actions.

 

I mean, I mean, there was a benefit in learning through an action, right?

 

So, so you learn as you go along for sure.

 

But the actions got so much stronger once and so much more sustainable.

 

Once we put them under our accessibility framework, we call it the enabling all excluding none framework.

 

And I wish we would have had that earlier because then those, those early impacts could have been much, much more impactful.

 

And obviously the compound effect of that could have been faster and stronger.

 

And maybe a second one, when, when having such a framework, when identifying such a framework, always also put them under, under, under your mission, under your reason, under your why you're doing this is as important.

 

And that can and maybe should also include some form of, of metrics besides the, the, the obviously intangible tasks that you want to, want to address.

 

But I think those were some learnings that I, and we as a team had as we went along, happy that we have them.

 

I'm sure they're going to be other learnings as we continue the journey.

 

But those are the ones I would list for now.

 

We never stop learning in everything we do.

 

And I think it's, it's both a blessing and a curse that you have that, that desire to change that you, you didn't start early enough.

 

But I guess it is so true what you say about embedding the access desires in from the ground up.

 

When you're starting a project, make sure you're bringing accessibility into it.

 

So you don't have to go back and, and change the actions.

 

And that, that vision board piece about making sure you put accessibility into your values as an organization so that you can never escape it.

 

It's always there with you in everything you do.

 

Exactly.

 

And, and, and that, that is true to, to the overall that we want to continue to, to pursue, but, but also to, to the individual dimensions or elements that, that we're driving.

 

Like, again, an example in the, in the physical workplace, accessibility arena, also together with, with your peers, right?

 

What is a vision of a, of a building 2030, 2040 and, and how is accessibility then embedded in that?

 

You can translate that to, to any other dimension of accessibility as well.

 

And, and it's so important that you, that you have this, this vision.

 

And then while it may change here or there a little, but at least you have that, that, that direction already set.

 

And again, you can make your, your actions much more impactful.

 

What would you say to businesses and people that have the attitude, oh, that doesn't apply to me.

 

Accessibility isn't relevant to what we do.

 

Yeah.

 

First, I think when I encountered those arguments, most of the times it was not out of any kind of bad will of, of, of the, the respondents.

 

It was rather maybe of, of not being fully aware of the, the scope of, of the population, the, the compounding effect, again, essential for some helpful to anyone, the return on investment that this can bring, maybe also a little bit of a misconception on, on what, what the investment needs are.

 

And so, so therefore most of the times those responses came probably out of a, not fully aware camp than, than, than any kind of bad will or so.

 

Right.

 

And so, so, so therefore I would change the, the, the questions maybe a little bit around, have you assessed how accessibility can actually compound what you're targeting and not distract you from it actually is, is the prerequisite for whatever you want to pursue.

 

Have, have you explored that?

 

And, and when the answer then continues, continues to be a rather, no, not yet or so, then, then, then rather approach the conversation with a helpful attitude and say, then, then let me assist you in, in, in maybe exploring this a little bit.

 

That turned most of those conversations around, Bobbie.

 

Obviously, right.

 

You will always have the one or the other person who thinks different and, Hey, that's okay.

 

Thinking different is, is actually a benefit in society.

 

So, so therefore it helps us to strengthen our, our approaches and, and maybe also arguments a little bit.

 

So, so we take that as encouragement then, but again, most of the times it was rather not being aware and not understanding it fully than anything else.

 

Flipping the narrative is, is often one of the most powerful things that you can do to help you gain a better understanding of it.

 

And I really appreciate you bringing up that return of investment piece, because I think what you said is so true about there's a massive misconception that accessibility costs loads of money.

 

Reasonable accommodations are really expensive.

 

If I give one person a reasonable accommodation, then I have to give it to everyone, but actually it's not a business perk.

 

It's, it's a job requirement.

 

They, they need it to fulfill their, their role.

 

Frank, thank you so much for joining me today on Mobility Mojo Does Disability:IN.

 

And we are really excited to be catching up with you in Dallas.

 

And yeah, thank you so much for joining me.

 

I really appreciate it.

 

It was my pleasure, Bobbie.

 

I enjoyed the conversation very, very much.

 

And I'm equally looking forward to Dallas and whoever from the audience happens to cross our path in Dallas, please, if you like, just say hi, connect.

 

Let's explore a little bit on how we can drive this together.

 

No one is alone on this journey.

 

Even if sometimes it feels that way, that's not the case.

 

Absolutely.

 

It takes a village.

 

As you rightly said, Frank, thank you so much and happy Tuesday.

 

Happy Tuesday, Bobby.

 

Thank you for listening to Mobility Mojo Does Disability In. Follow us on LinkedIn at Mobility Mojo or send us an email for more information.

 

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