Future proof yourself and your business

This is Mobility Mojo Does Disability:In. I'm your host, Bobbie Hickey.

 

On today's episode.

 

I'm Elke, I work for Capgemini and at Capgemini I'm responsible for our environment, health and safety, also the environment, social and governance topics.

 

Welcome back to Mobility Mojo Does Disability In. And today I am joined by Elke Kux from Capgemini.

 

Elke, thank you so much for joining me today.

 

Thank you for having me.

 

Looking at your profile, it's very impressive.

 

You're responsible for a huge amount across Capgemini.

 

I wonder, can you start by telling us a little bit about your connection to accessibility and why you're so passionate about it?

 

It's true, I feel I'm responsible for a wide array of topics, looking at environment, health and safety, a bit of employee listening, compliance topics for Capgemini.

 

And as part of these activities, I also work closely together with our colleagues from diversity and inclusion, our inclusive futures colleagues.

 

And I think I'm passionate about the topic because I feel, oh, that sounds funny, but from a very egoistic point of view, I think people work best when they feel welcome and included.

 

So if we as a company want to make sure that our people are able to give their best in a diverse environment, well, we need to create spaces where they feel included.

 

Be that accessible, be that an environment where they find their needs fulfilled, whatever these needs are.

 

So I feel it's really my passion is about creating work environments where everybody feels included and can thrive at work.

 

Such a good point.

 

And I know that that's been a topic of conversation I've had a lot recently, that when businesses really start to work on accessibility and really make it part of everything they do, they often find that they open the door to so much more creativity and productivity and their employees become so much more efficient because there's that psychological safety piece at work that as you were saying, when someone feels accommodated for and truly like they belong physically and mentally in a space that they can bring their whole self to work.

 

Is that something that you found in the work that you do across your buildings worldwide?

 

Yeah, I think it's exactly that point to bring your whole self to work.

 

And that's probably my true personal connection to the topic.

 

I came back to work with limited hours after a long illness and I felt it difficult to find a workplace that I knew very well, but I had changed during my illness and to really feel complete and full at work again was a struggle for me.

 

So I really, for different reasons, but I really felt people try to do their best to accommodate me with the new requirements I felt I had that I didn't have before.

 

And that really gave me the opportunity to go back to work also full time after a while and to thrive again.

 

And that's something I'm really thankful for and that's what I wanted to pass on.

 

That was my very personal experience.

 

And thank you so much for sharing that personal experience because it is so true that disability does not discriminate.

 

It can come for us at any time of our lives.

 

And it's very common to acquire a disability across your professional career.

 

And I used to have a little bit of sight and then recently I've lost all of it.

 

And I've found myself that the way I work now versus the way I used to work a few years ago has changed.

 

So I really appreciate you bringing that up.

 

It's very relatable to me personally.

 

I'm wondering when you look back on your accessibility journey with Capgemini, is there anything that you find very satisfying that you guys have achieved as a business?

 

What I really find most satisfying is to see different aspects of change.

 

I'm really proud and happy to see how we've managed over time, also with the help of Mobility Mojo really, to collaborate with so many more people, to bring really people on board who are further before and not connected to the topic.

 

And that's through the assessments, through looking at sites with a fresh pair of eyes.

 

The Mobility Mojo assessments are done by our own people together with often a third party, our service providers, facility management providers.

 

And they know the sites by heart.

 

But then with the assessments, they got an opportunity to look at the site with fresh eyes.

 

And that really indirectly educated them, developed them to see their sites, their own sites.

 

They know very in each corner, in each detail with different eyes.

 

And that was a great, not achievement, but a great step forward to really enable people to see things differently, to include more.

 

And that's what I'm really proud of.

 

We have collaborated, well, we've always collaborated closely with Karine Vasselin, our digital futures lead, so our diversity lead.

 

But really bring this topic to people on the ground, so to say, who are not connected naturally through diversity.

 

That I find really amazing.

 

And I'm really proud of the people who've engaged and who joined this journey.

 

And the second part for me is really this idea of continuous improvement.

 

Not to say, okay, we do something and now overnight we make all our sites accessible.

 

That's now not how it can work, but to really say, okay, we are on a journey.

 

We start, we have things in place, but we can improve and we can improve going forward.

 

We will not be in terms of Mobility Mojo assessments.

 

We will not be platinum overnight by two years.

 

That's not, I feel that's not hard words, but to really continuously engage with people on sites, in countries, with our different networks.

 

We have an employee engagement network called Capability.

 

And really to say, okay, it's a journey.

 

It's a journey to constantly improve our sites to make them more accessible in various ways.

 

That's something I'm really, I find an amazing achievement for all of us.

 

It's such a good point that you're never done.

 

You know, you're always learning every day is a school day.

 

And accessibility is really an area that is always changing.

 

And I actually really like that you said it's not necessarily an achievement, but it's a step forward because that's exactly it.

 

We like to think about the assessments as a natural next step for businesses operating in today's world that it is just a requirement that all of your buildings should be accessible.

 

So that what we spoke about earlier, all of your people can bring their full selves to work.

 

I wonder when you think back to the assessments or any other areas in fact, about your accessibility journey, what surprises you the most?

 

What I found very positively surprising is with how little money or budget or resources, you can really make large improvements.

 

And that's, again, something I've really learned from the assessments.

 

Just by having minor changes, having handrails in more contrasting colors, having appliances at different heights, things that can be easily done with little or no money, changing processes, looking at things differently, you can really make a big step forward.

 

And to learn that from one side and apply it to more sides, that's something I found really a very positive surprise.

 

And of course, at the same time, it always surprises me at how difficult things can be, like self-opening doors, self-opening doors, fire doors.

 

The self-opening doors, they do tend to have a huge maintenance, and then they stay open or they stay closed all the times and they're in conflict.

 

So the surprise goes both ways, so to say.

 

It's a very positive surprise how easily you can change some things with little resources and how difficult other things can be.

 

With our landlords, we are renting most of our buildings, we're leasing them.

 

And then you can't just change, make the...

 

So of course, we do have accessible washrooms, but to make them more accommodating, they're often with landlord, and then we need to discuss what needs to be done, and it's not up to us, and this can be really complicated.

 

And these are issues that we all face around the world, no matter where you're based.

 

But I think you raise some really good points about how something as simple as a door, you know, we all need to use doors.

 

It really shouldn't be complicated, but for whatever reason, because of all the rules and regulations for whatever country you're based in or whatever type of door you're trying to put in, they often can be a very cumbersome and huge task.

 

But I do want to just focus on what you said there about the minor financial commitment that also comes around with accessibility features.

 

It's a big misconception that this is a very expensive task and that reasonable accommodations are going to cost loads of money.

 

And if you give one person a reasonable accommodation, then everyone is going to expect it.

 

I wonder, I know you gave us a few examples there, but I wonder is there any success story that comes to mind when you think of an adaptation that you put into one of your buildings that really cost little to no money, but had a really big impact?

 

What I found really interesting is in one of the...

 

What I find really interesting is the...

 

If it's a new building and you plan the building, it's so much easier to have all the right things from beginning on and there's no cost difference.

 

If you have a sink, you can roll under and you build it from beginning, it doesn't cost money, just build it this way.

 

The same for many other things.

 

The surprising thing or the amazing thing was in one of the buildings, the new buildings, which was really very accessible.

 

And we have colleagues in a wheelchair in this building and the doors were closing too quickly from the elevators.

 

So it wasn't enough time to the door to open to really go in, including the colleague accompanying, in this case, him.

 

So it was actually easy to change and have a much more welcoming start of the day by just having the doors of the elevators open for a longer time.

 

And it's positive for all, actually.

 

It's not only for our one colleague or more than one colleague, but the one colleague in a wheelchair really needed more time.

 

And now the doors stay open longer, it's easy and everybody is very happy about it.

 

So true.

 

When you design an environment to be accessible for the margins, often the majority does benefit too.

 

When we think about your accessibility journey with Capgemini, is there anything that you would change when you look back on?

 

Not necessarily change, but something I find difficult and something I would really try to improve, and that is communication.

 

And that's exactly the point you just mentioned.

 

So for me, I start with my own conviction and values and we really, Capgemini, thrive on diverse environments, on diverse project teams, on having different cultures, backgrounds, abilities in their teams.

 

So that's my true belief.

 

And I thrive on, I personally really am convinced and I really trust that it's right and this is the way it should be.

 

But when talking about diversity in general, not necessarily accessibility, but really diversity, I think it's easy that people feel almost threatened and they say like, well, why do you do so much for such a minority?

 

Why don't you look at the majority of people at Capgemini and do something for them?

 

And that's not at all reflected in my thinking, but I know now much better where they are coming from.

 

It's not, it's the way we communicate things.

 

And going back to the example of the elevators.

 

Well, it looked like it was for one person only, but that is not the case at all.

 

It's creating an environment for all.

 

And from so many things we have changed, everybody benefits.

 

And my idea of fairness is everybody needs what he or she deserves or everybody deserves what he or she needs to thrive, to feel welcome.

 

And that can be very different, but it's not that we are doing so much for a minority and neglecting the minority.

 

That was never my thinking, but that's what I have come to realize.

 

That's what often people hear.

 

And so to really change communication, to explain much better what's the idea of accessibility, of including people, of inclusive futures.

 

That's the challenge, not just come from my own beliefs and convictions and assume that's how everybody should be.

 

Everybody needs to know it this way.

 

That's probably not a very limited approach I've taken and I have not seen that.

 

And now, so that's something I would really change to say, okay, how do I need to communicate so that it's clear we are creating environments where everyone feels included?

 

It's not about this whole majority-minority topic, but it's about everyone and needs are different.

 

And there is no majority.

 

Everyone's needs are different and we're catering for so many different needs.

 

And that's the communication piece I've really had to learn and I'm still learning.

 

And what would you say to businesses or people within those businesses who think that they don't need to buy into accessibility?

 

It's not relevant to what they do?

 

Well, I feel it really is.

 

It's not limited for me.

 

It's not focused on accessibility.

 

It's really focused on equal chances for everyone.

 

And that's a right we have.

 

And that's something I feel the company benefits from these really diverse project teams.

 

They are more effort, to be really honest.

 

It's much easier to work with people who all think like you, but the outcome is much better if you don't take the easy way.

 

The outcome is so much more client-oriented, future-proof considering other things, that it's not only a benefit for each one in the team, once we have learned to work with each other, but it's also a benefit for the company.

 

That's why I start to say it's almost an egoistic approach or even for the company.

 

It's a beneficial approach to really make sure everyone thrives, people are included.

 

We want diverse employees.

 

We do have a diverse by definition, because we are in so many countries and we have so many different people.

 

We have a diverse workforce already, but how can we expand it across backgrounds, across abilities and disabilities, across gender and many parts of diversity?

 

That's really something I truly believe in is a benefit for each one individually and the company.

 

And thank you for being so honest about that because I'm sure loads of companies will be able to relate to that.

 

Oh, we're in loads of different countries, so by default we're diverse, but actually put in the extra effort and make sure that you're diverse, not just through nationality, but also in every way and collaborate with those around you and come to a much richer conclusion in everything that you do.

 

Elka, thank you so much for joining me on Mobility Mojo Does Disability In?

 

Thank you.

 

It was a pleasure and again, thanks for having me.

 

Thank you for listening to Mobility Mojo Does Disability In?

 

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