Building a Neurodiversity Network at AtkinsRéalis

SPEAKER_03 0:00

For transcripts or to learn about how you can make your building more accessible, visit mobilitymojo.com forward slash podcast. This is Designing for the Range. What is NeuroIclusion and how do we achieve it? Join Mobility Mojo as we explore what Neuroinclusion looks like for you and your buildings across the world. In this episode, I'm Ian Chapman.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

I'm the APR portfolio director at Atkins Realis. And I was the co-founder and also co-chair of the Neurodiversity Network that handed over to Maggie and Rebecca earlier this year.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Hi, I'm Maggie Lloyd. I'm a change consultant at Atkins Realis, and I'm the trade chair of the UK and Ireland Neurodiversity Network.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Hi, I'm Beck, and I'm a change and communications consultant at Atkins Realis, and I also co-lead the UK9 Neurodiversity Network with Maggie.

SPEAKER_03 1:11

Thank you all so much for joining me on Designing for the Range. Ian, I'm going to come straight into you because I want to understand why Atkins Realis has started the UK and Ireland Neurodivergent Employee Network. What was the spark that inspired this being created?

SPEAKER_00 1:29

So for me it was a couple of things really. I'd been in quite a few engineering companies before Atkins, and I'd noticed that there was a general sort of prevalence of neurodiverse people in some of the very technical engineering roles. When I came particularly into Atkins, looking at our signalling uh practices, um I recognised that actually we we could do more for those people. Um signalling engineers are generally quite an expensive resource, and um also at the same time we've got a bit of an overheating of the market, so we're seeing quite a lot of competition for people in roles. And so it was partly that made me start to think about well, we we could do better here, we could do something that's really supported those people more. Um on the converse side, um, my son, my oldest son, is autistic, and um I've got two other sons who are both severely dyslexic, and really we had a lot of training with that, we got quite a lot of understanding um to in terms of neurodiversity. And I thought that we as a company could do something more, um, and also if I did something, it could maybe sort of change the industry a little bit, make it better for for my sons, and hopefully help them get roles in the future in in uh industry. So it was something that I I sort of saw as a bit of a need, and I started looking around the company and and talking to different people, um, and I um met uh Caroline Norris, who had also had sort of similar sort of ideas that she got uh a family connection as well um to um uh neurodiversity, neurodivergent um uh uh uh sort of like family members, and so it it made sense for um us to try and start up a uh a network in the company, which was something which had been sort of quite a news. These employee networks were quite a new thing at the time. Um so that was what we did really. We we started um pulling together um some people who were interested in that, um, and we started with a launch at the iMeki in London, uh, where we got um one of our team to to do a talk from a personal perspective on what it meant to them. Um and from that point it really started to uh sort of take off as a network, um, and it was starting to sort of build that um initial group of a set of people that we could then start to rely on and and sort of really get involved in the network. Um we we'd found things early days would sort of change quite a lot where um people were, um, especially when we had objectives around EDI, that was everybody in the company had those. Um, and we get a lot of interest and a lot of excitement, but people then very quickly sort of move away. So it was about sort of starting to form a a core um set of people who could work with us and and we could rely on to do things and take roles on. Um and so really that's where we we sort of got to that that sort of early start. Um that was back in about 2019. Um at the same time, we started to see uh quite a lot of um things in the media uh about um autism in particular, um, and and so that sort of really helped those initial early stages um and um and sort of raising the profile in the company uh and generating a lot of interest.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

And you mentioned there, Ian, about the the ability to be able to rely on other people within the organization to carry out the tasks of the network. And I know that we now have Maggie and Beck um leading the network between the two of them. Maggie, can I come to you first and ask what your role is within the network and why did you want to be a part of it?

SPEAKER_01 5:09

Thank you. Yeah, so I'm the UK and Ireland uh neurodiversity network co-chair with uh Rebecca on this call with us. Uh what drew me to it? Um I was a late diagnosed ADHD female. Um, I have children that have all uh subsequently been uh found out to be neurodivergent themselves. My husband is as well. Uh one of the things I recognised when I first uh entered into at Kentry Alice was uh a lack of uh direct support from uh other individuals within the business that um support neurodivergents. One of the first things I did was uh introduce a coffee morning where we brought uh other neurodivergent colleagues together. We had set questions, and these were generally questions around uh coping strategies and challenges within the business and what people have implemented alongside their working days to make to reduce the challenges via accommodations or just everyday things that they've introduced themselves, and it's just been incredibly powerful to have that connected, and that's what's really driving me to be part of the network is is creating um and reducing uh challenges within the business and just opening up support.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

Yeah, and we do know that it's very common um for women in particular to be diagnosed a lot later in life with with ADHD. Um I know from my own personal experience it's it's very common. Um so I yeah, thank you for sharing that insight. And then Beck, if we come to you, uh why are you a part of it and what what's your role within the network?

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Yeah, so um my two youngest brothers are both autistic, so um neurodivergence is something that's kind of close to my heart and close to my family. I also have another member of the family who's self-diagnosed with ADHD. And I actually came across the network by accident within Atkins Rally, so I didn't know it existed after a couple of years. Um, but one of my colleagues kind of put me in touch with the network and I started to support with um some communications and helping them promote their events, and I just really started to see how valuable it was to people and the kind of support that it provided to neurodivergent, neurodivergent people within the business. And I just wanted to play my part. Um, and similar to Ian, if I was imagining a workplace where my brothers would eventually work in the future, I wanted it to be as inclusive as possible. So trying to make those changes now so that it's ready for people in the future, whilst also improving it for people that work here now, I think is really important.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

Yeah, um, and I love how you all have personal reasons for being a part of it. I think that's really important if we want to see anything really flourish within the workplace. Oftentimes it needs to come from a personal, personal desire to make that happen. Um, Ian mentioned that the network was established in 2019, but now it has over 900 members, which is a huge expansion. Beck, can you talk to us a little bit about how the network grew at such a rate and what role senior leadership had in this expansion?

SPEAKER_02 8:12

Yeah, um, I actually think so. Our network on Fever Engage, which is our kind of internal social media platform, we we have over 1,500 members now, and that is globally across all of Atkins Realis. And the way that that happened was um when Ian and Caroline set up the network, I think people really noticed a gap and noticed that they really needed that support. And it kind of spread a lot by word of mouth. But also senior leadership played a massive role. So the our network in the business has two senior sponsors, one in the UK and Ireland and one on the senior board level across the globe. And yeah, their role is to advocate for the network and promote it within the senior leadership team, but also within the teams that sit below them. Um, and I think that had a massive impact. And after a few years, the network started to become more global. So we started to work with the US, with Canada, with our colleagues in the Middle East to set up their own neurodiversity networks. And then that kind of grew exponentially because people in those regions didn't have the support that we had in the UK and Ireland. So we were able to help them to establish that and not starting from scratch, they were able to learn a lot from us. And I think it naturally grew from there.

SPEAKER_03 9:23

Yeah, and people can certainly learn a lot from you. Um, one example of this, I think, would be your neuroinclusive workplace design guide. And I think this is probably particularly prevalent right now because we're seeing a massive shift for people returning back to the office um after the global pandemic. So, Ian, I'm gonna come to you again and ask a little bit about this neuroinclusive workplace design guide. Um, what input did the network have on this guide and how is the guide working today?

SPEAKER_00 9:53

So I we we had initially a um requirement uh to um refurbish our Epsom office, and one of our Neurodiversity Network members down there um engaged with the local estates team to look at how we could improve it in in ways that make it more inclusive. And and one of the the initial areas was to try and get some quiet spaces for people who found they needed um less distractions to be able to work. Uh, and that was something the estates team accommodated and they put in that, and that was a really great start. Um, but also helped us form a bond with that estates team and then talk to them more about okay, so what could we do? Because they they have a program of office refurbishment refurbishments they go through as they go around the country. And um, and so we we sort of started to think about okay, what are the the areas we could really improve around um making the the spaces m work much better rather than just a quiet area, how can we make it work better for people more generally? And so um the the Birmingham office became our sort of real next stage to to update the estate's policy in conjunction with the estate's team. And and some of the changes we made in there um were uh you'd imagine sort of sort of quite subtle initially, um, but they they certainly had quite a big impact. So uh an office here in London, which was before we we looked at things, we've got quite a lot of um wooden slats, vertical wooden slats across the office, and that causes quite a lot of visual distractions for people with ADHD. So in the Birmingham office we we've removed those. Uh we had um a general office policy previously was a a carpet which had like a barcode sort of pattern on it. Um but we removed that as well again to reduce visual noise. Uh we increased uh the amount of biophilia by having um they're actually petrified plants around the office, but they they sort of on uh a double purpose, they help baffle the sound, but also provide that that link back to nature, uh, which uh helps people who are uh neurodivergent. So that's a yeah, a real sort of like benefit we found from that. Um as well as that we looked at the um the sort of quiet spaces and different types of quiet spaces around the office. Uh and we tried to make it so that they were located away from areas of high traffic, away from areas of sort of smells uh and noise, so away from like the sort of kitchen areas, away from meeting places, so they were sort of like in in areas that would really suit people, um, but also had um task-based lighting that wouldn't flicker, because again, some people are autistic and see the the the flicker of the the overhead um sort of fluorescent lights. So having uh a task-based lighting helped them. So we we've done all these things as well as having um more um uh rooms where people could go uh that are um sort of multi-purpose rooms, so they're uh sort of like faith rooms, but um pregnant mothers can um express or sorry, re new mothers can express milk in there, um, but they're also there for somebody who can go go into and just take some time out and allow them to decompress. And the the walls have a a big sort of forest scene, um, it's sort of like big wallpaper all across one big sort of wall to help again create that that sort of sense of uh biophilia. So um we'd we've done all these things in in place at Birmingham, and I have to say we're we're really pleased, and and Estates did a really good job of sort of like taking our wishes and making them um part of our offices. Um but we wanted to keep things going. So we then decided, well, wouldn't it be good to do an Estates guide to sort of set the bar, to set sort of aspiration of where do we want to get to and try trying to keep things moving forward. So that's what we did. So the the Newer Diversity Network, we we spoke to um some of our office design people, um, and we also got people in the company who are involved in um uh design for inclusion uh standards development as well as uh processes that we do as part of our the work we do. Uh and so it was to we as a network we paid for some time for for um a lady called Emma Tom Nimson to to write the um the guide on the the off making uh inclusive office spaces. And we wanted to do that um partly, as I mentioned, internally to set the bar for estates, but also we did did it as something as like a sort of thought leadership piece. Um and this is sort of like with the transition of the network, we very early days we sort of were very much internal, make sure we sort of did things internally to you know improve what we did. But we got to a point at which we felt at that stage we were starting to walk the walk, if you like, uh and we could then sort of publicly talk outside about the things we do. Um and so this was one of the first things we wanted to get out there was look his guide um back to the original aims, which was let's make things better for our sort of uh relations who are um uh neurodiverse. And so let's get that out there. The more people that can adopt it and use it and learn from it, the better. So we we just issued it as a as a free document for people to download and and look at. And we've been contacted from the US, from teams that have seen it over there, companies that have seen it over there, that wanted to then understand what we'd done and how we'd we'd done it and what they could do with it. So we had a uh we've had sort of comes from quite interesting discussions around the piece. It's generated quite a lot of interest. So yeah, it was a good piece to do.

SPEAKER_03 15:09

And it it is fantastic. I've downloaded it, um, and in fact, that's the reason we're all here today. So thank you for making it public and thank you for speaking about the work that you're doing. Um, when you talk about, you know, really engaging in the practice of making spaces work for everyone, not making everyone work for the space, you know, that's the whole premise of this series. Designing for the range is about appreciating that a space is not one size fits all, and that we should have a number of different spaces available within our buildings so that people can always have the ability to work in the environment that they operate best in, so they can be the most productive and the most efficient version of themselves at work. Um, do you think that the network and the guide has shaped how people think about the places and the spaces that they're working in every day within Atkins Realis, but also maybe in some correspondence that you've had externally as well?

SPEAKER_00 16:03

So um yeah, we we used it really to um help sort of look at with our employees and and how they could work. And one of the principles we wanted to try and adopt was no matter what we did as a uh a change, it wouldn't disadvantage anybody. Um that it was you know making our places more inclusive doesn't put anyone else uh at um at a disadvantage. And and that was um a principle we've always adopted through the the network uh right from the start. Um and the other thing we we do a lot of as well is we we pick up with the uh enable network um who are um the the network associated with people less able um physically. Uh and so there's a lot of overlap between us and we we work quite closely with those. Um and so that that was sort of like part of us trying to um also promote outside that we are an inclusive company and that that we we do want people to um sort of you know think of us as being more inclusive and a and a place to work and a place that they they would like to work at, um as well as helping the people that work here be more effective and and and do more. Um Beck, is there something you wanted to add on to that as well?

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Yeah, um I think in the offices that Ian's mentioned, so you know Manchester, Epson, London and Birmingham offices, which are are the main offices where we've implemented this design guide, I think the numbers kind of speak for themselves. Like th those are really well utilised offices. So like you said, Bobby, it's it's not just designing for a specific group of people. Um everybody actually benefits from those designs, and people enjoy coming to the office more because there's lots of uh different spaces that people can work in. So we also um carry on meeting with our estates teams quite regularly, so quarterly or or twice a year, um, just to keep up to date with any refurbishments that are coming up and see if we need to provide any support to them. And like I said, yeah, uh the offices that we are refurbishing automatically become more popular for people to work in. And that is a process that takes a lot of time. Uh, we've got a lot of offices across the UK. We are trying to slowly refurbish them bit by bit. Um, for example, our Bristol office may be moving in a few years, but that's still a few years away. So in the meantime, they've introduced some new furniture, they've introduced biofilia, as Ian mentioned, um, to try and just introduce those spaces now. And I even believe that one of our meeting rooms has become a welfare room for people to use for whatever they need it for. So we've got these grand plans for our offices in the future, but there's also small changes we can make now to make our spaces more inclusive.

SPEAKER_03 18:42

And it's great that you have the buy-in from other areas within the organization as well, not just the network itself. But you know, you you mentioned your relationship with estates there and that it's ongoing and that the lines of communication are always open. It's it's great to hear that that exists because I know that that's something that sometimes organizations, when they want to start off employee resource groups or networks and they really want to make change within the organization, that is something that they struggle with in getting buy-in from others within the business as well. Um the last question I have time flies when you're having fun. Um, I'm gonna ask all three of you, but Maggie, I'll come to you first. What next would you like to see happen in the neuroinclusion space, be it in work life or in personal life?

SPEAKER_01 19:26

So I'm going to approach this more from the um uh business perspective. So for me, neuroinclusion is closely linked to organizational effectiveness. So when people are able to work in ways that help them perform at their best, teams are often more engaged, collaborative, and productive. So creating an environment where people's perspectives can thrive benefits both individuals and the organization. So that comes via a greater emphasis on inclusive practices that benefits everyone. So obviously, anything that is implemented for disability or neuroinclusion generally has an additional benefit to everyone. Um, so things like clear communication, accessible meetings, flexible ways of working, of contributing, and well-designed processes can create a better experience for everyone, whilst also supporting neurodivergent uh employees. So I'd like to see more organisations take a more proactive approach, so considering inclusion during the design of systems, processes, and ways of working, rather than relying on adjustments after barriers have already been identified. So I think there is also an additional opportunity to continue building understanding as well. So, as we've all witnessed in recent uh years, there's been a lot of uh propaganda um pushed out with by right-wing um media that's uh challenging people's uh preconceptions around neurodivergence, and that can be very damaging. So, if we can build better understanding and awareness of neurodiversity, we can encourage more constructive conversations, share lived experiences, and increase understanding. So, with that better equipped organizations, we'll be able to create supportive and inclusive environments. So we need to be able to have open conversations and feel trusted that we can divulge and converse around these tricky subjects or challenging subjects to demystify it and open up um doorways or windows. So, with that in mind, I'd like to all like organizations that is to continue sharing examples of what works. So there is a huge amount of good practice that we ourselves have witnessed um emerging across all different sectors. Um, so I think if we can learn uh from one another by being open about our successes, the challenges, and lessons that we've learned along the way, I think ultimately um It would be great to see neuroinclusive practices just become a part of the way we work on a day-to-day basis and not something that's considered as independent or an additional. It just is woven into the day-to-day practices of a business where inclusion is just embedded into the culture, leadership, our processes and just everyday interactive interactions, even uh it creates an environment where everyone has the opportunity to contribute and ultimately succeed in in the path that they want to take.

SPEAKER_03 22:35

And the media can be such a dark pit at the moment. Um, and I guess that's what we're trying to do. Yeah, that's what we're trying to do with this podcast, I guess, just give little windows of practical um and real life advice to businesses and people alike about how they could move forward in their daily lives. And you mentioned there the the price that someone will pay to have to redesign their space after it's been refurbished, um, if they didn't consider you know neuroinclusion or accessibility when they're doing that refurbishment. In the work that Mobility Mojo does, we see all the time the cost, both literally and metaphorically, um, that businesses incur when they don't consider neuroinclusion or accessibility and when they're redesigning or um indeed kind of refurbishing, we're building new offices. Um Beck, I'll ask you the same question. What would you like to see happen next with neuroinclusion?

SPEAKER_02 23:29

So, yeah, I think I'm very aligned with what Maggie just said. So um, yeah, as as well as like trying to improve the culture of businesses around neuroinclusion, there is that um process and system side of things where things have to be designed from the outset for everybody. Um, just as an example to kind of uh add some colour to what Maggie said, I had a conversation with a colleague a few weeks ago about safety. So um is everyone's perception of safety the same? Uh are people's perception of risk of risk the same? And if someone is neurodivergent, do they perceive the risks in the same way as perhaps a neurotypical person might do? I don't think we've really considered that. And that's something that we want to learn more about and improve on. And similarly, safety systems, so where we log our safety incidents, when we do safety communications, if we have updates to processes, we're just kind of sending one communication out to the whole business and hoping that they understand it. And actually, there's different ways to design that communication to make sure everyone learns it in the in the way that they like to learn and understand it. Um, so that's just an example of I think where we still have some work to do and where we're actively looking at that. In terms of the wider industry, I think um I think just hearing those personal stories is is really key. So getting people to talk about it more, um, listening to people, and that will also help businesses because if they have real examples of people's experiences, then they can design um improvements that fit more people. Um so yeah, one thing we're trying to do in the network is to obviously if people are comfortable too, but getting them to talk more about their experiences, share stories, and that actually then kind of resonates with our leadership teams who may not have considered that perspective before or may not have understood that's how people in the business actually feel about this certain topic. So I think just um trying to talk about it more is is is always really impactful. Um yeah, and hopefully that can that can create improvements.

SPEAKER_03 25:31

And it's such a good point that you raised there about safety. You know, when you need to communicate one message, that doesn't mean that you should only be communicating the same message in one way. You can communicate the same message in multiple ways so it lands with multiple groups of people. Um, and you know, kind of back to Maggie's point as well, but you've both made the point, Maggie Gambeck, about social media and businesses, you know, being proud and speaking out about the initiatives that they're doing within this space. And we know that there's a lot of fear at the moment about businesses kind of championing DI and championing inclusion in whatever way that that is for them. So we're really grateful that you guys have agreed to speak to us today. Um, and we do hope that it it inspires other businesses to be brave and to speak out about their initiatives too. Um, Ian, I'll I'll come to you finally and ask you the same question. What would you like to see next in the neuroinclusion space?

SPEAKER_00 26:24

So something we did a couple of years ago was uh in conjunction with WSP, uh we formed the Rail Industry Neuroinclusive Community, uh, which is RINC for short, uh, and we put that together with um uh TFL, High Speed 2, uh Network Rail, uh to as well as some other other um companies, uh, to basically do uh a sort of share on um what we do around neuroinclusion. Uh and this was sort of on the same sort of basis as safety. Um and so you know the the whole principle around sort of um uh safety in the railway was being open about it and and taking the best from each other, sharing with pride sort of thing. Um and we wanted to do the same for um neurodiversity, was to to sort of do the same sort of share. Um we know that others are stronger in in certain areas, you know, maybe we're stronger in autism and others are stronger in um dyslexia, and so what can we learn from each other? So that was the sort of the original premise of of that group. Um and what we found was actually uh the ability then to cascade information down to SMEs who then don't really have the um the the sort of the size to be able to invest in quite a big department around um your inclusion. And so being able to pass on to them uh what we do, um materials, um uh different um elements of what we've gone through and then different issues that we've sort of thought about, we we sort of thought was sort of quite useful. Um now that's in rails. I'd like to see that expanded across other areas and and other industries come together again to sort of share what they're doing around inclusion and and how it can be um best practice or even just new new ways of thinking about things to to help sort of change the industry. Um and that goes back to my original aim was for my sons, was trying to make the overall industry better for them. And and this it really helps get the story out there. So that's what I'd I'd really like to happen going forward.

SPEAKER_03 28:19

A really well-rounded um approach there. I think you know, multiple voices are always more powerful than one, and we have it from a business perspective there and also a personal perspective. Ian, Maggie, and Beck from Atkins Realis, thank you so much for taking the time to speak to me today. But also thank you so much for your ongoing dedication to this cause within Atkis Realis and your UK and Ireland and Eurodiversity network. It's really inspiring. Um, and I do hope that it motivates businesses to be proud of what they're doing. And if they haven't started one, I really encourage everyone to start a network and to absolutely to download the Atkins Realis um Neuroinclusive Workplace Design Guide. It is fantastic. You'll learn loads about it there. And if you do have any questions at all about anything we've spoken to today, you can always reach out to Mobility Mojo. We'll be happy to direct you further and to continue the conversation. Ian, Maggie, and Beck, thank you all so much. Mobility Mojo thanks you for joining us for this episode of Designing for the Range. Together, let's open the world for everyone.